We used Temi to auto transcribe this, then Dan went through and checked it based on the show notes. He tried really hard on it, but this kind of stuff isn't his specialty. So if you notice anything confusing, please comment on this post so Dan can look at it and clarify anything.
Dan: 00:00 Welcome
to bunny trails or whimsical adventure of idioms and other turns of phrase, I'm
Dan Pugh
Shauna: 00:05 and
I'm Shauna Harrison. Each week we delve into the origin and history of an idiom
or other turn of phrase and discuss how it's been used over time. Have you ever
heard someone describe their life and realize that they were having a totally
different experience from yours?
Shauna: 00:21 Yeah.
Same here. I don't know if that speaks to some great truth about the world
today or if it's just a sign that I'm like an adult now or something.
Shauna: 00:32 Yeah.
I, I hate being, uh, reminded of my oldness so, uh, so Dan, do you know, do you
know what our phrase is?
Dan: 00:40 Yeah.
No, I gotta be honest. That did not give me any indication whatsoever about
what our phrase is. Oldflangled?.
Shauna: 00:56 Oh.
What? <Laughter> Worlds apart means very different or very far away.
Sometimes it's used as worlds away. So this phrase worlds apart as really quite
simple. But the part that makes it figurative rather than, uh, a literal phrase
is the word 'world'. World is an interesting term. It originally was used in
English to mean the state or realm of human existence on earth or this present
life. And this was basically us putting everything into the context of
ourselves. We've always been kind of like anthropocentric I think from the get
go. So this use of the term world was first attested in print like a really
long time ago.
Shauna: 01:52 Hey,
no, this was in our galaxy. It's really hard to date old English texts. But
this, uh, attestation was actually from the select historical documents of the
ninth and 10th centuries. So, so we know it was from that time frame. Okay.
Yeah. It includes a charter to Christ church in Canterbury,
Shauna: 02:20 Okay.
So was titled Christ Church. Um, but, but not the place in New Zealand. This is
Canterbury, specifically the Christ church. And you can't, yeah. "So it is
written that God foretold the end of the world." And in that sense it was
saying the world as in people, the existence of humanity.
Shauna: 02:40 Yeah.
So moving on a little, we see another figurative use of the word world. And
according to Oxford English dictionary, this definition was "usually
proceeded by adjectives designating a world other than that of the earth. This
was chiefly seen in Judeo-Christian contexts. So specifically the world of the
afterlife of the blessed. So Heaven, uh, frequently another world or a better
world and similar expressions."
Shauna: 03:12 Yes.
So we see this use in old English, in West Saxon Gospels. These were estimated
to have been written around the 11th century. Uh, there a translation of the
four main gospels of the Christian Bible into old English.
Shauna: 03:38 So
the quote from this is "neither in this world nor in the other
world." And so again, referencing that concept of, of another place of
existence,
Dan: 03:57 I'm,
I always thought that as Christianity, if you believe, if you believe in
creationism, you have to believe in the existence of alien life because the
concept of alien would be not of earth like life that was created outside of
earth. And so if someone created earth, then you have to believe in life not of
earth. Like that is a, that is a tenant of your religion. If you believe
someone created earth, you have to believe that there is life that was created
not on earth.
Shauna: 04:28 Yes.
Yeah. So finally we see world used in our phrase today and this was when it was
adopted with the addition of other words. Um, this is "any state or realm
of existence, especially one regarded in contrast to that of contemporary human
life." So not just a physical realm or like this kind of mental or whatever
other realm, but a but an actual concept like, so a conceptual realm here. Um,
and the best representation of this usage is, uh, from an... this is from a
pretty old text as well in Erasmus' Handbook of a Christian Knight. And this is
from 1533. "Let us imagine therefor two worlds, the one intelligible and
the other visible." Wordsworth also gives us a wonderful example in Ode
from his 1807 poems, "Blank misgivings of a creature moving about in
world's not realized."
Dan: 05:29 It's
not like blank misgivings so that you can be like, insert whatever you want to
hear misgivings. But like he actually uses the word 'blank' misgivings.
Dan: 05:39 That's
anytime someone says the word blank in a sentence then. And, and I, I
immediately wonder, wait, did they mean that was a blank and that I could fill
it in with whatever I wanted or I had to guess? Or did they mean like, like,
you know, if he's used the phrase blank check, then okay, I get that. But
almost any, it's hard to, I'm sure there are, but they're not coming to mind
right now. Other uses of the word blank that I would not, especially as an
adjective that I would be like, I don't know.
Shauna: 06:11 Blank
misgivings. I think that's a thing though. I feel like I've heard it before or
maybe I've read Wordsworth enough. I don't know.
Shauna: 06:20 There
we go. Uh, so to me it seems logical that these kind of resulted in our phrase
worlds apart, uh, because it's natural. Once you imagine these kind of varied
worlds, um, that exists separate from one another that you would do then in our
anthropocentric view of things of me and placing at people or those concepts
worlds apart from one another. I was surprised to learn how late into the game,
however, that we actually find the phrase. Uh, so let's go back to our
definition.
Dan: 06:52 So
like worlds... So worlds started to be used like a long, long time ago. Like in
old English. Yes. But it wasn't until whenever much more recently that we saw
worlds apart then?
Shauna: 07:06 Yeah.
So worlds apart again means "vastly different or distant, uh, or quite
incompatible". Similarly, worlds away or worlds away from are often used
in 1800 Charles Hutten wrote in Diary Companion. "How did we revel in our
distant Bowers in fancied interviews, whole worlds apart." So Charles here
was a mathematician and his comments have been interpreted as a figurative
statement on his recent experiences. So this was the first time that we saw the
phrase worlds apart, used in this manner and also in print. Um, that could be
truly confirmed, uh, to describe a great difference or distance between people.
So I thought that was cool. That's like 18, the 18 hundreds early 18 hundreds.
That's a long, long ways off from the 11th, 10th, ninth, or 10th century.
Shauna: 08:04 Yes.
In the Glasgow Herald in 1891, we find this quote, "it is always the case
in every game where skill can be employed, that the most skillful make their
mark and are worlds apart from the comparatively unskillful." I really
enjoyed this quote because I think we often still see this concept today, those
who are so very talented and perform leaps and bounds ahead of the rest of the
pack. Uh, it makes me think back to the recent tennis match between Novak
Djokovic and Roger Federer,
Dan: 08:36 which
yes, definitely was one for the ages. I would definitely say that even though
Federer lost, that one, the two of them are among the greatest, definitely the
greatest currently tennis players and possibly the greatest of all time.
Shauna: 08:51 You
right. And I think that's something that's marked by the fact that Federer's
uh, one of his other matches that he also happened to lose is also listed among
some of the greatest tennis matches. So just that like standing out so far
beyond worlds apart from the rest of the competition. Henry Scott Holland wrote
in old and new sermons in 1900 "they look to you worlds apart" and
Holland was highlighting the differences in various cultures and those of
varying social statuses. In 1957 Herbert Richard Hoggart wrote in his novel the
uses of literacy aspects of working class life with special reference to
publications and entertainments. I think he was confused about what century he was
publishing a book in.
Dan: 09:41 Yeah,
he definitely, well not only does he have a slightly long name, but then he
also used an incredibly long title for his book, which was more an 1800 thing,
but you know, 16 to 18 hundreds frankly.
Shauna: 09:52 Right?
"It is worlds away from the fellowship and service of some of the socially
purposive movements." While this excerpt didn't say anything necessarily
poignant for the history of our phrase, Hoggart did use worlds away as opposed
to worlds apart. And while there are not as many specific citations for worlds
away in literary references, there are references to it in many dictionaries.
In the 2002 book the story of Western Architecture, Bill Risebero writes
"These middle-class kids, trying to form a commune, were worlds apart from
the building-workers in the French bidonvilles or the thousands of homeless in
the barriadas of Peru." Risebero approached the topic of the development
of architecture in the West as an expression of social and economic conditions
and supporters of his work claim that it will last because he chose this
historical starting point rather than one focused on aesthetics. And I thought
that was really neat.
Shauna: 10:56 Even
his quote kind of represents that idea. So I always enjoy researching the use
of phrases in less regulated works than those carefully curated literary
references. And that's where Chronicling America comes in with our, uh,
newspapers. There was a group of Sonnets by an individual merely listed as
Quince. And it was posted in the morning herald out of New York. This was on
September 4th, 1837. And this was, uh, a sonnet about authors, "Authors
are beings, only half of earth, they own a world apart from other men, a
glorious realm given by their fancy birth subjects, a sceptere and a diadem, a
fairy land of thought in which sweet bliss would run to ecstasy and wild
delight, but that stern nature drags them back to this with call imperious,
which they may not slight, and then they traffic, with their thoughts to live
and coin, they're laboring brains for daily bread, getting scant dross for the
rich ore they give while often with the gift, their life has shed and thus they
die leaving behind a name at once. Their countries glory and her shame."
It's like intense if you're an author because it's kind of hits home.
Dan: 12:15 You're
only, you're only half of earth, but then you're also a world apart. Is that
the world of your story?
Shauna: 12:32 my
brain naturally went to the Cheyenne. Wyoming could just, yeah, yeah. Sometimes
you exist in your story.
Shauna: 12:41 Oh,
well I, yes, but it's, it's a, it's a conceptually different world than the one
you're living in.
Shauna: 12:48 Yes.
I also thought it was pretty cool cause that's, uh, you know, sonnet from 200
years ago and that, that, that, uh, idea is still is holds true. Another poem
that I found rather meaningful was written by Eleanora Louisa Montagu and was
shared in several newspapers around 1840. It was titled The Girl at her Wheel.
"Then gladly-sing gladly, my heart, Where thou hear’st not the storm waves
roll! Secure let me dwell in my calm world apart, Where life’s billows disturb
not my soul." That's very beautiful.
Shauna: 13:27 Yeah.
Okay. So from the Richmond Times dispatch, this is out of Richmond, Virginia.
December 6th, 1914. The mysterious disappearance of Hope Latham. Hope
Lathamwas, uh, an actress and she's telling her own story.
Shauna: 13:42 "Then
I secured what every actress wants, a play of her own and the dignity of being
a star. But the voice of love called and called" And then it continues a
little further on, "Up the river, only three hours away, but it seemed
worlds away. An honest loving man waited for me. I fled at the stage for
Kingston and never, not for one moment have I regretted the change." So
she uh, ended up becoming a widow, which is sad and but returned to the stage. So
this was her story of where she'd been all that time. Moving ahead to the
1930s. The world was looking for a little bit of romance and a not love
interests at this time, but more romanticism. And there is a lovely article in
the Sunday Star out of Washington, D C and this is January of 1934.
"Romance is coming back with little women as screen success, Alison
Wonderland touring the legitimate stage, Anthony Adverse...."
Shauna: 14:42 And
it goes on to list some other popular stories of the time. They were describing
some different stories that, that were hitting the stage and becoming popular
again and why they were popular and referencing romance as the reason.
"Then there are the three little pigs. God bless them if their story isn't
romantic, who can say what is the three little pigs? They are as old as romance
itself as old as the desire of most men to sing and dance and to the wisdom of
the chosen few who build their houses of brick." And it also discusses the
happy ending. I'm on this screen version of the story. We know that a lot of
original fairy tales were changed to be a little bit happier over time. So the
two pigs who did not use brick to build their, their houses get to, to be saved
from their folly and, and live with their, their third pig brother in safety.
Shauna: 15:35 "But
what helped most to make this little screen cartoon a far greater success than
most feature films was it's ability to tap deep wells of forgotten sentiment in
audiences, to set men and women to remembering battered picture books and
kindly nurses and jolly old grandfathers and to light them with a humor and
freshness worlds away from sophistication and grim realities and vulgarity."
So a drastic difference from the typical screen performances of the time.
Throughout this time, both worlds away and worlds apart had been used
simultaneously and fairly equally. Here's one more excerpt with worlds apart,
and this is from the evening star of Washington DC in 1950 there's a lovely ad
for women's business attire and this is landsburgs fashion success specials
"save more than a pretty penny." I liked that, so I wanted to include
that. "These are specially priced two double duty styles. What real buys.
These are one jacket and two skirts. Give you two suits that look worlds
apart" . For $8.88 which that is a steal. If I'm, let me tell you.
Dan: 16:52 Today’s
show is sponsored by our Patrons. According to the Oxford English Dictionary,
since the 1300s the word “patron” has meant: A person standing in a role of
oversight, protection, or sponsorship to another. Patron comes from the Latin
word for Father, Pater, then becoming Patronus meaning champion or protector,
then to Patron, meaning one who sponsors something… like a Patron of the arts.
Leonardo Da Vinci had Patrons like Medici and Cesare Borgia. Bunny Trails has
similarly awesome Patrons, including Charlie Moore, Pat Rowe, and Mary Lopez.
If YOU want to become a Patron of Bunny Trails, and get cool perks like early
access to episodes, behind the scenes content, monthly mini-episodes, and more,
you can visit us patreon.com/bunnytrailspod, or you can find links to it at
bunnytrailspod.com
Shauna: 17:44 As
we start looking at more modern usages of worlds apart, we see it swing back
into a fairly serious tone addressing deeper issues and emotions on the 2015
Adele album 25 our phrase is found in the song. I miss you. Um, I'm a pretty
big Adele Fan. So while this didn't show up in my initial Google search, uh, I
remembered the lyrics and wanted to include it. "We play so dirty in the
dark cause we are living worlds apart. It only makes it harder baby". And
then, you know, she goes on.
Dan: 18:29 Right.
That's clever. I mean, sure. Good, good, well done. I guess her voice
definitely seems older than she is. I think I'm more mature voice.
Shauna: 18:39 Why?
I was like, is this just a, is the age thing kind of just, just publicity, but
I K I don't know.
Dan: 18:46 I
don't know. Well here's the deal, Adele. I know you're a huge fan of the show.
It's not a bad thing. It's a compliment. The voice is just very mature. That's
all, it's very good.
Shauna: 18:55 You're
gorgeous. Alright. A worlds apart seems to be a go to when choosing titles for
film. It is a 1921 American silent mystery film starring Eugene O'Brien, Olive
Tell, and William H Tooker. 2008 it was also used as the title for a Danish
film. So worlds apart. The daughter of a Jehovah witness is forced to choose
between religion and love when she falls for someone outside her faith. In 2015
the Greek drama worlds apart, a directed by Christoforos Papakaliatis, sorry,
Christoforos and this consists of three separate narratives, each following of
love story between a foreigner and a Greek. Each story represents a different
generation falling in love during a time of socioeconomic turmoil that dominate
southern Europe as a whole only to connect as a single story in the end. Then
there's also the short Scifi film worlds apart from 2016 and this is a new take
on our theme "two scavengers in a world where technology is a thing of the
past, discover an old abandoned police cruiser and quickly realize that the car
is hiding something that will force them to reexamine their relationship.
"
Dan: 20:08 I
feel like I need to know what that thing is but also not going to watch that
movie to find out.
Shauna: 20:14 Okay,
this is a short film. How do you not have enough information in the trailer for
short film? l, I mean the whole thing must've been given you background. I
don't know. So in addition to full length features and independent films, this
name worlds apart is also used for many TV show episodes. It was the title of a
2003 national geographic series and also the name of the, of the 30th season of
the reality TV competition show survivor
Dan: 20:42 30th
season?!? No... they have to have done more than one season per year. Is not
like one season per year then
Shauna: 20:52 I'm
thinking maybe two. But even with that 15 years is a long time. Could it be
30th season? It could be 30 years.
Dan: 21:04 Survivor
first aired on May 31st, 2000 yeah. So it is not even, it is, it is not even 30
years old. It's not even 20 years old. But there was a earlier version that uh,
that survivor, the American version came from that aired in 1997 and that was a
Swedish television series "Expedition Robinson" created by Charlie
Parsons. Ah, okay. Still survivor. The American edition has put out more than
one season in a year because it's only 19 years old.
Shauna: 21:40 Yes.
Okay. See, I'm seeing this, uh, on April 18th of 2018, cbs renewed the series
for 37th and 38th season. So they must be doing two seasons a year. That's kind
of what it sounds like.
Dan: 21:53 I
wouldn't know. I didn't look that far into it, but I did look far enough so
that we could give all of you wonderful listeners the facts according to
Google.
Shauna: 22:04 Google
facts, all right. A worlds apart is also the name of a rather large toy company
with brands like Scruff-a-Luvs, Monkey Mania, HelloHome, Spin to Sing, Woofy
Whoops, and SelfieMic. They had, there were a lot more brands under this umbrella.
Yeah.
Dan: 22:21 I
feel like you covered, I feel like you covered everything we needed to know to
get a feel for the kind of toys are being sold here.
Shauna: 22:29 At
Worlds Apart, we help families make the most of growing up. By constantly
discovering new ways to bring the best ideas together, we create children’s
lifestyle products that give kids and parents more, so every day is full of
wow. “The Worlds Apart way helps us see the world through parents’ eyes, find a
fresh perspective at every turn and put kids first…”.
Shauna: 22:48 Back
to the music industry, Worlds apart is a multinational boy band of the 1990s,
uh, this, they had a sort of ever changing lineup. They've had a variety of
vocalists over their active years, which include 1992 to 2002 and 2007 to the
present. I kind of love this group story. Worlds apart released their first
album in the UK and after a number of concert tours and regular television
appearances, the band became hugely popular in Europe where they signed a
record deal with emi. Steve Hart became their lead singer and songwriter for
the band. And uh, after becoming, after winning best newcomers at the
prestigious Bravo super show, worlds apart quickly became the biggest boy band
in France.
Shauna: 23:39 hi.
They were regularly supported by the backstreet boys and nsync. Hey, that's
pretty big stuff there. Just,
Shauna: 23:50 worlds
apart. Success continued all through Europe, the Middle East, South America and
Asia.
Shauna: 23:59 It
is! Due to their massive success worlds apart represented France in the world,
music awards and also broke merchandise records in every concert hall in the
country, in the biggest ever French tour. Uh, with number one singles and...
Dan: 24:11 wait
wait... the biggest ever French tour.? What was it like six days? You can cover
all of France in six days.
Shauna: 24:19 I'm
also guessing that they weren't including like wine tours. Right? But they've
sold well over 10 million records, so
Dan: 24:30 no.
Yeah, good job. That sounds like you are incredibly popular and if you're still
going then we are way better than every boy band Americans ever put out. So
good jobs.
Shauna: 24:39 Seriously
impressed. I'm like, do I need to find a new boy band now that I'm no longer of
that age?
Dan: 24:46 Listen,
I'm not going to go listen to their music, but I am going to say very good job
and well done and keep up the good work, Worlds Apart.
Shauna: 25:02 I
know, but I did learn that worlds apart is often used for websites that are
dedicated to video games like arc and final fantasy. Uh, and these are
typically fan-based sites or sites that are designed to connect fans from
around the world. And there are usually kind of forum heavy style websites that
is
Dan: 25:23 um,
not at all what I expected you to say after learning something from urban
dictionary.
Shauna: 25:28 Right.
That's really cool. Uh, so basically this phrase is all over the place right
now. Ah, it's in such wide use today. I, I think it's kind of interesting
though that it found its way to this lighthearted sales pitch, you know, style
with the 1950s and then found its way back around to this more purposeful usage
that we're seeing. And I think that's really awesome. The phrase and the words
themselves mean that people are different or distant. However, the goal of
using this phrase is to highlight those differences and bring people together.
And when I started researching worlds apart, I expected to find love stories,
comedies, and some of those pun style titles that we all enjoy. I was surprised
to discover worlds apart being used to address these truly heavy topics and in
a genuine and noninflammatory way. Even the love stories are about more than
just two people who are simply different personalities. Many of the modern
examples of worlds apart are used by those making an effort to bring
understanding or connection to varied and sometimes divided groups of people
and I think that's pretty beautiful.
Shauna: 26:39 That
about wraps us up for today. Thank you so much for joining us. Don't forget to
find us on your favorite podcasting app and leave a review.
Dan: 26:46 If
you have a suggestion for an idiom or other turn of phrase, or just wanna chat,
you can catch us on social media, mostly on Twitter, @bunnytrailspod or on
Patreon at patreon.com/bunnytrailspod. Of course, you can get links to
everything we do at bunnytrailspod.com Thanks for joining us. We'll talk to you
again next week. Until then, remember,.
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