We used Temi to auto transcribe this, then Dan went through and checked it based on the show notes. He tried really hard on it, but this kind of stuff isn't his specialty. So if you notice anything confusing, please comment on this post so Dan can look at it and clarify anything.
Shauna: 00:00 Welcome
to Bunny trails, a whimsical adventure of idioms and other turns of phrase. I'm
Shauna Harrison
Dan: 00:05 and
I'm Dan Pugh. Each week we delve into the origin and history of an idiom or
other turn of phrase and discuss how it's been used over time. Sometimes I feel
like podcasts are a dime a dozen. Uh, there are just so many of them in the
market and I wonder how someone could ever know like what shows are out there
and how to find them. But then I remembered that podcast listeners and
especially our podcast listeners are amazing and definitely not a dime a dozen,
but are in fact worth so much more. And if you haven't guessed it yet, I want
to talk about the phrase dime a dozen.
Dan: 00:39 According
to the Oxford English dictionary at dime a dozen means "so plentiful as to
be almost worthless". As an example, one might say that on social media,
angry people are a dime a dozen because you can get them everywhere. And since
they are so common, they're worthless. So this is an interesting idiom because
it's essentially a saying that something is worthless. But before it became an
idiom, it was a popular way of describing just a cost of goods. So it wasn't
necessarily that it was a good deal beforehand. But we definitely look back on
it and think, oh, a dime for 12 of the thing is a good deal. And we'll see some
examples of where sometimes it's a good deal, sometimes it's not
Dan: 01:25 And
I use literal and figurative in the historical context, not In the fact that
they can both mean literal or figurative anymore.
Shauna: 01:33 Gotcha.
That's kind of cool. Like, so is there a time frame that a dime paid for a
dozen of things?
Dan: 01:39 Yes,
absolutely. For a very long timeframe. Well, not long word wise, but long human
for a whole human lifespan. Okay. All right. So before we jump into that,
first, I want to say that a dime has met one 10th of something since the late
13 hundreds like in this phrase from 1377 by William Langland in the vision of
William Concerning Piers Plowman and he says, "take her lands you lords
and let him live by dimes". So he's using dimes here, meaning a 10th of a
thing and a 10th also another a 10th was also a tithe as well. So, um, there's
also some, some of that same background in the word, but uh, and their, uh,
William Langland is not the only one using it that way. John Wycliffe and
Thomas Wright were both writing about dime in the same way as a a 10th of
something in the late 13 hundreds. Gotcha. So there are some, some good
examples of there, but it wasn't until the coinage act of 1792 that we started
seeing the dime as a currency in the United States. Ah, it's a 10 cent coin.
One 10th of a U.S. Dollar labeled formally as 'one dime'. Interestingly, the
first known proposal for a decimal based coinage system in the United States
was made in 1783 by Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Hamilton,
and David Rittenhouse.
Dan: 03:05 Well,
a couple of them did for sure. Yeah. Yeah, that's fair. So Hamilton, the
nation's first secretary of the Treasury, as I think everyone these days know,
recommended the issuance of six such coins in 1791 in a report to Congress
among the six was a silver coin, which he says, "which shall be in weight
and value one 10th part of a silver unit or dollar." Gotcha. And so the,
the dimes were minted for circulation, but then they didn't appear until 1796
due to a lack of demand for the coin and production problems that the US Mint.
Shauna: 03:39 Oh,
is that Kinda like, we don't need the a thousand dollar bills right now or
something like
Dan: 03:43 they
were, oh yeah. Somewhat. But they also like, you know, had some production
problems too. Yeah. As far as I can tell, the u s is the only country that
actually has a dime. Uh, most places call it a 10 cent piece or something
similar. And I always thought Canada had a dime. Uh, but according to the Royal
Canadian mint, the official national term of the coin is 10 cent piece. Though
in practice, the term dime still predominates. Yeah. Uh, another interesting
fact that Canadian dime is magnetic due to its distinct metal composition.
Dan: 04:23 I
also, I didn't know that. Alright, so let's move on to dime a dozen, which in
the 18 hundreds was used to literally mean paying a dime to get a dozen of
something. In the Davenport gazette in October 19th, 1848, this is out of Scott
County, Iowa. Uh, and I'm going to read a piece. So just as background, the
author is a Floridian and he wrote a letter to the editor, to his friends in
Iowa, and he was mentioning how Louisiana, where he was traveling when he wrote
the letter was dependent on the north for many things and he was waxing poetic
regarding the cost of certain foods. "But after all, it is greatly
dependent on the north. For the necessaries of life from Vince is drawn all her
flour, beef, pork, potatoes, and even the apples for which we would gladly
exchange three for one are here dear than oranges, the ladder retail at five
for a dime, but a good Pippin will bring half a dime. Eggs are cheap at 30
cents and fowls at $2 50 per dozen. Yesterday I heard a man asking a dime a
dozen for onions. Think of that. Ye farmers of Iowa, a dime a dozen for onions!
Those I saw looked very much as though they grew in Hawkeye soil. Still, you
must not suppose that these prices range throughout the whole catalog of
edibles. It's only for the imported ones."
Dan: 05:44 Yeah,
exactly. So he's not talking about being a good deal, although, you know, we
tend to think of that historically cause we look back and we think, oh 12
something for a dime. That's cool. But that's not necessarily the case. Some
things were a dime a dozen and others were not. And a dime a dozen was just an
easy way to sell stuff. And so we see here as an example that, uh, onions he
thought shouldn't be that much, uh, in Louisiana because he's not used to
having to pay that much for them. In this case, it's being used literally, but
it's not necessarily positively, um, in the Rock Island Argus out of rock
island, Illinois. And this is October 16th, 1903. And they talk about dimes
making dollars here. "So if you want dollars, uh, save your times by
buying your groceries at Anderson brothers." Uh, and then just as just an
idea of some things you could get in 1903 for a dime, one can best tomatoes,
one can best new pack ps one can pink salmon, two cans, good pork and beans,
one can sardines in pure olive oil, one pound Fancy Carolina head rice. You
could get two packages of best cornstarch hour. You can get one dozen parlor
matches, which is kind of cool. You can get one doesn't new Harland herring for
two dimes. Wow. But anyway, so that's just an idea of like, you know, in the
90s and early 19 hundreds is 19 three what things would cost for a dime. So you
see parlor matches where literally a dime a dozen right here at that point.
Shauna: 07:10 Well,
dime a dozen, you know, it would be a lot easier and make so much more sense to
have this, um, you know, base 10 uh, monetary system. If we weren't charging
tax on everything, it'd be a lot easier to just say, okay, it's 5 cents or it's
10 cents. Like, if you're actually just giving the dime, like I bet it was easier
for them to have prices that were like at set at a, you know, one of those
points.
Dan: 07:36 Um,
that would be true, not to get into economic theory too much, but they could
also just take the cost of the tax and then charge it so that it even once
taxes involved, it's a 5 cents or $5 or whatever. But that, uh, that's a little
bit more difficult to do because Americans like sales plus we like things to be
something 99, so.
Dan: 08:00 $4.99
is better than $5 every day of the week. Absolutely. If you're an American
anyway, uh, the Hopkinsville Kentucky in this is out of Hopkinsville Kentucky
if you hadn't guessed a, and this is in 17, this is, sorry, 1914 September 3rd
"homegrown cantaloupes are selling at a dime a dozen it, Winchester,
Kentucky and 40 pound watermelons sell at 10 cents each." Wow. It's
actually, it was pretty common the late mid to late 18 hundreds and even
throughout the early and mid 19 hundreds. Uh, but by World War Two, there
weren't too many things that actually cost a dime a dozen anymore.
Dan: 08:36 So
it seems logical that this usage, the literal usage would start to fall out of
favor. Yeah. But by that time, the literal and figurative meanings had been
contemporaries for some 50 years. Oh Wow. So at first we see the phrase in a
quasi figurative way with the prefix of I wouldn't pay, or they aren't worth, a
dime a dozen. This is from the Cook County Herald out of Minnesota, February
29th, 1896. And this is in a, a piece called a Pal in Petticoat by Hanwell
Briggs. "She said she didn't mind it. I asked her a few questions about
the people. She said she could get on all right with Mr Winthrop. And she was
on very good terms with Mrs Winthrope, but she wouldn't give a dime a dozen for
the servants. For one thing. She didn't believe they kept a proper lookout on
the place while they were wasting their time and flirting and gaddling a
burglar could get in at almost any moment. "
Dan: 09:33 We
have another example. This was in 1896 we have another example of it being used
figuratively in the much the same way in the August 23rd, 1900 edition of the
Hutchinson Gazzette out of Hutchinson, Kansas. "Thank you for nothing.
Replied Marie Antoinette disdainfully. I wouldn't take them if they were sold
at a dime a dozen. I'm told that Hurley's generally known as early pearly
because he drinks and Bulper known as bullpup because he's so hideous."
She uh, was talking to her father about how she did not want either of the men
he had suggested she should marry. I mean, you know, oh, I, I don't disagree
with her. I might disagree with her for different reasons that she brought up.
Just her in general. But generally that's fine. So here in 1922 we see another
example of this, this is the June 2nd version. This is out of the Lake County
Times, which is Hammond, Indiana. And this is from a article called "Says
Philly has a real ball team" by David J. Walsh. He was the international
news service sports editor. This is New York June 2nd "Although skeptics
still abound in plentiful numbers, the Philadelphia athletics can take
consolation from the fact that they have sold themselves to one man whose
opinions are worth slightly more than a dime a dozen. He is Colonel TL Houston,
vice president of the New York Yankees who will tell any buttonhole maker in
the audience that the athletics are a ball club."
Dan: 11:01 It
makes me laugh. I'm not a huge fan of the Yankees, so I love anytime somebody
is making fun of them. In this case, he's uh, clearly facetiously saying that
his opinions are only slightly worth more than a dime. It doesn't tell us.
Right. Uh, we, we see a couple of other examples here. We're uh, in the late
1920s with phrases attached to sports as well. Just like that one was a in the
evening star out of Washington DC, August 26, 1928. "None of the present
crop attractive. Boxers for awhile at least we'll have to battle on percentage
basis" by sparrow McGann. And one of the statements he makes in here is
"you can have your Riskos, Sharkeys, Heeneys ,Paaolinos, and Hansens and
the fans will not give you a dime a dozen for the lot. Bring on the young man
with the punch."
Dan: 11:50 Like,
uh, he's basically saying that all of these guys are old boxers and nobody
wants them anymore. He wants to, he wants to bring on the young guy that can
hit.
Shauna: 12:00 Okay.
I mean, I like, I caught that part, that bring on the young man with the punch.
I just didn't know what the Heeney and
Shauna: 12:11 Gotcha,
there were probably popular boxers at the time. And I'm just not, I just am not
aware of who they are. Yeah. Gotcha. I'm following, I see.
Dan: 12:20 So
by 1929, we start seeing the phrase Dime a dozen with no need for a prefix.
This is also in the evening star, July 25th, 1929 this is from a piece called
the sidewalks of Washington by Thornton Fisher. He says "the subject is
too deep for this column. Every now and then. Some independent soul emits
complaint about the age of standardization, if we were not standardized
automobiles would still be the rich man's toy instead of selling for a dime a
dozen." So in this case, he is making the claim that automobiles are so
cheap now that they're a dime a dozen, which of course automobiles have never
been a dime a dozen, but this is what he's pointing at. Gotcha. So like
everybody and actually essentially, right. And the sidewalks of Washington. It
was a series of pieces published in the evening Star newspaper. I found a
couple other instances of Thornton Fisher using dime a dozen metaphorically,
uh, later in articles in 1928 and 1929 as well. Another article here also from,
um, 1929 in the August 25th edition of the same evening star, Washington DC.
This is by Feg Murray. And here he's talking much like we were talking in 1928
about old boxers.
Dan: 13:30 Uh,
and so he says, "but of the dime-a-dozen heavyweights who have been
wearing the public with their tiresome bouts for the past year and a half, the
Sharkies, Stribling's, Maloneys, Heeneys, Paulinos, Riskos and so on. Schmeling
is an unquestionably the best. Perhaps Tommy Loughtan could beat him, but
perhaps not. "
Dan: 13:50 Hmm.
So then I definitely, as I found this stuff, I started wondering like, you
know, is there a boxing component to this? But now it doesn't appear to be,
they just adopted it like everybody else in boxing was a very popular sport at
the time.
Shauna: 14:04 I
do think it's an interesting though. It's like they're wearing the public with
their tiresome bouts and I'm like, okay, so are they just like boring to watch?
Cause they're just old hat, like
Dan: 14:14 theres
a lot of hugging, probably a lot of hugging going on, you know, as they get
worn up pretty quick.
Dan: 14:21 o
the first time we see it in a book and not in a newspaper is actually in 1930
by in a book by Courtney Terrett called Only Saps Work: A Ballyhoo for
Racketeering. This was published by the New York vanguard press and that she's
in this, she says "these are mere dime a doesn't rackets compared with the
truly big time stock market. Swindells" okay. I want to put that one out
there because this is when the Oxford English dictionary says that this phrase
is first attested. So because of that, every site on the Internet also says,
this phrase started in 1930. I'll talk a little bit more about that, but let me
just point out that's not true. Clearly we found, we found very many for almost
40 years before this. That's crazy. There was an article in 1934 in the, um, in
the funnies, I guess, uh, the comics in the evening star of Washington DC.
Dan: 15:16 This
is May 2nd in the comic Little Orphan Annie and uh, Eh, he says the, the
Alderman is yelling at a principal. He says, "get this straight fellow. I
can get school principals for a dime a dozen to fill your job." So Alderman
is clearly mad and trying to throw his weight around and yell, honey, these a
dime a dozen in there. Jeez, that's a see it, uh, in the Midland journal out of
the rising sun, Maryland, this is October 7th, 1938, where, uh, Dr. George D
Berkhoff is a professor of mathematics at Harvard and uh, he notes that
"as the doctor sees it, mathematicians won't be worth a dime a dozen if
he's highly gifted men keep on coming".
Dan: 15:57 In
the November 7th, 1944 edition of a newspaper that I cannot pronounce out of
Cleveland, Ohio "en knack oh prav nost?"
Dan: 16:10 Maybe
that sounds great. So this is actually a disturbing story called "the dime
a dozen club formed".
Dan: 16:18 And
I'm gonna pick and choose the words I use here because a, there's a first
lieutenant out of Medford, Oregon who is shown handing out certificates
attesting to the kills, 47, of the Japanese forces, although they use a racial
slur by members of the dime a dozen club. He promised each man of the unit 10
cents for every dozen Japanese killed, again and other racial slur, a and when
the photo was taken, they only lacked one enemy combatant, Again, another
racial slur, from having earned their 40 cents for the four dozen, which is
really disgusting to me. Um, racial slurs. Yeah, racial slurs aside, uh, which
I refuse to read. Obviously the concept of paying a bonus to kill another human
just doesn't really sit well with me. But this, I only include this because I
very often run across the popular Americans sentiments as told through the
newspapers during World War II.
Dan: 17:18 And
that has never really set well with me. Um, it was a timeframe when our entire
goal was to dehumanize other people so that we could justify killing them. And
I'm not trying to make too much of a comment on war, a little bit, but not a
lot of, bit. More I want to make a comment on the dangers of dehumanizing other
humans. Anyway, let's move on. Okay. So I see the phrase in literal use when
things were frequently sold at the cost of a dime for a dozen of them, and a
figurative use has sprung up as a contemporary usage in the late 18 hundreds
and early 19 hundreds but as prices kept rising and virtually nothing, cost a
dime a dozen anymore, the literal use started to fall off. But of course we
continue to see the figurative use in many ways today and more on that in a
minute. But first...
Shauna: 18:13 today's
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Dan: 18:51 So
I want to share a couple of, uh, modern examples here of the use of dime a
dozen, like in this song from the 1982 west in performance. That's a London of
Snoopy! The musical.
Dan: 19:06 Right?
Yeah. So the song's called dime a dozen and it Lucy sings:Dime a Dozen! Special
today! A Dime a Dozen! Take him away! Dime a Dozen, any takers? Okay, what's
say, I'll make it a "baker's"! Thirteen for a tenth of a dollar,
Let's go, I'll throw in a collar! For every beagle you buy Dime a Dozen
Unlimited supply!
Dan: 19:09 And
Snoopy, in reprose says: Dime a Dozen, cheap as they come Dime a Dozen, face
it, old chum Bargain basement, that's my speed, yeah Cut break, tin plate,
economy breed, yeah This canine is out-canined French poodle, it boggles the
mind! No knock-em-dead pedigree for me Dime a Dozen is all I'll ever be
Dan: 19:55 Uh,
and then I'm not going to make it any better here. So, um, let me read a book,
um, called a dime a dozen. This is by Nikki Grimes and it was in October, 1998
and this is a collection of poems about African American children growing up in
New York. And here's one from the book and a from her website,
www.NikkiGrimes.com . That's N I K K I N G R I M E S dot com. And I highly
recommend you check this out. This woman's a national treasure. You should
follow her on Twitter as well. Writers are a dime a dozen... I heard those
words one time too many from my own mother... But my heart scripted one phrase
truer: Someday she'll be/ proud To shout out loud My daughter/ the Writer
Dan: 20:51 I
went, uh, I want it. So when we were researching this, I went to go, cause she
had a Twitter thing on her account, so on our website. And so I clicked on it
and found it and then, you know, basically just told everybody to go follow
her. She was very, she was very sweet about it too. She, she looked really
nice.
Shauna: 21:07 No,
that's awesome. Yeah. Well that's just that one short snippet there is
beautiful. So I am interested in reading more of her work.
Dan: 21:16 Yeah,
and she, I mean, she has many other books out there too, so, and they all look
pretty awesome. There's another movie I want to use a dime a dozen from 2016 in
the late 1940s detective Rick Morrison is down on his luck. He's being evicted
from his home. He's got no cases to investigate, no leads on any other work and
worse, he's out of Bourbon.
Dan: 21:44 Yeah,
absolutely. Yeah, so I love it. I do get a kick out of finding things in the
research that no one else seems to have found, or at least as reported on and
of course this week was just another example of that. As most popular websites
or even most websites at all mentioned the Oxford English dictionary. First
attestation of the figurative phrase dime a dozen to be 1930 as I mentioned
earlier, but thanks to the United States Library of Congress's free,
chronically in America project. I was able to find numerous examples of the
phrase used figuratively as far back as 1896 and I think this is a testament to
two really important points. One, you should always do your own research. Don't
take somebody else's word for it. Don't even take my word for it. Of course we
cited our sources and where we found it, but you can go check that out too.
There are many free and also low cost options, so just don't, don't use
anything as an excuse. You have like the sum of human knowledge and history at
your fingertips. You should use it.
Dan: 22:47 Well
now how I hang on, I mean like that's part of the problem with the whole
vaccine debate, which isn't a debate. That's one of the reason with any
anti-vaxxers is that they think they're doing their own research but they're
not ready. There's a line in there. You definitely have access to stuff. So do
your own research and ask questions. It's probably a better way to put that. Do
your research, ask questions and then listen to answers. All right, so the
other thing that I think is really important to hear is that as a society we
have to support the preservation of our recorded knowledge. And one way to do
that is by learning about the places and projects dedicated to that cause. So
here are a couple, the association for library collections and technical
services. This is part of the American Library Association. There's also
project Gutenberg, which is the oldest digital library, which was founded in
1971 a and then there's also the Chronicling America project, which is part of
the library of Congress.
Dan: 23:41 So
those are just some of the projects taking place in the United States. We have
listeners in over 25 countries. So we want to know what you are doing in other
countries to help preserve works like books, newspapers, and oral histories. If
this is my... this is my, a challenge to you listeners. Hit us up on Twitter or
on our website www.bunnytrailspod.com or on Patreon a wherever it makes the
most sense. We're on Facebook too, but I don't get on there very often cause
it's a silly place. But
Dan: 24:12 Twitter,
Twitter or Patreon or our website is best let us know what's happening in your
country and some of the amazing projects that are out there that are helping to
preserve books and newspapers and oral histories, uh, for, for future
generations to do things like what we're doing, where we can read about that
and learn about how, uh, how people in the past used words and phrases and many
other things.
Dan: 24:36 Uh,
I think it's a, it's a great, great, great story. So I want to hear from you
about how things are happening and if you have other examples. The United
States, that's great too. I just want to hear from other countries as well.
Well. That about wraps us up for today. Thanks for joining us. Uh, we are
excited to say that we recently were added on Pandora, so you should go check
us out there. Uh, click on that, you know, collect button, uh, as you're
collecting the podcasts that you listen to on Pandora and make sure to hit
thumbs up on a couple of your favorite episodes.
Shauna: 25:04 If
you have a suggestion for an idiom or another turn of phrase, or if you just
want to chat, you can of course catch us on social media, mostly on Twitter,
@bunnytrailspod or on Patreon at www.patreon.com/bunnytrailspod. Um, as Dan
mentioned, we're also on Facebook and Instagram, uh, less frequently, but uh,
but we are there so you can get copies of our transcripts, listen to the
episodes and get links to everywhere. We are at www.bunnytrailspod.com. Thanks
again for joining us. We'll talk to you again next week. And until then,
remember,
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