We used Temi to auto transcribe this, then Dan went through and checked it based on the show notes. He tried really hard on it, but this kind of stuff isn't his specialty. So if you notice anything confusing, please comment on this post so Dan can look at it and clarify anything.
Shauna: 00:00 Welcome
to bunny trails, a whimsical adventure of idioms and other turns of phrase. I'm
Shauna Harrison
Dan: 00:05 and
I'm Dan Pugh. Each week we delve into the origin and history of an idiom or
other turn of phrase and discuss how it's been used over time. This week it's
raining. Just like last week. And the week before. In fact, the entire Midwest
United States feels like it's just floating away, which of course got me
thinking of rain idioms. So we've already done raining cats and dogs and we've
done rain check. But this week I wanted to explore the phrase when it rains it
pours. So from our friends at Merriam Webster, when it rains, it pours is
"used to say that when something bad happens, other bad things usually
happen at the same time."
Dan: 00:48 And
I will note that this is an American English form of the phrase. There's also a
British English form of the phrase as well. It never rains, but it pours. And
for that one, the Oxford English dictionary defines it as "events of a
particular kind (especially misfortunes) tend to occur at the same time or in
rapid succession."
Dan: 01:22 It's
funny you say that because Swedish has a similar phrase and Russian has a
similar phrase, and German has a similar phrase. There are many languages that
have some sort of a phrase about the concept that either like misery loves
company or when bad things happen, they overwhelm, that misfortune seldom
happens alone. Things over and over and over again. So, and in this case, we're
specifically talking about, it seems that when one thing happens, others tend
to pile on a, it never rains, but it pours is the original usage of this
phrase. And it was first attested in 1700 by Edward Ward in A Step to the Bath,
with Character of the Place. So this is in 1700 "the next morning I
received a letter of advice from London of the death of an aunt who has made me
her air, which put me in mind of the old proverb. It never rains, but must
pour."
Dan: 02:19 So,
even in the 17 hundreds, like specifically 1700, Edward Ward says that this is
an old proverb, but this is the first time we see it attested in print
anywhere.
Dan: 02:30 Yeah.
In fact, most of the time I see it first attested. It's actually with doctor
John Artbuthnot, which he attested in a book that he wrote called It Cannot
Rain, But It Pours. And that was in 1726. And so, uh, Dr John Artbuthnot though
was a Scottish physician and writer and tradition holds that he successfully
treated Queen Anne's husband, the Prince George of Denmark. And when the prince
recovered, the queen invited Doctor Artbuthnot, to serve on the royal court to
serve the royal family.
Dan: 03:04 Yeah.
Tradition also holds that he inspired Jonathan Swift's Gulliver's travels book
three. So that's just a bit of...
Dan: 03:11 ...random
trivia for you. In fact, Jonathan Swift also put out a paper, uh, later that
same year with roughly the same name and other play on when it rains it pours
as the title of his paper.
Shauna: 03:22 Okay.
So I actually, I don't know exactly what Prince George of Denmark was suffering
from, but I, I kind of in the back of my mind have an idea and, and I, I'm not
sure it was something curable.
Shauna: 03:48 Okay.
So though 1726, he titled His book this. So that tells me, I mean, people
would, would kind of have an idea of what it means, right? Or he wouldn't use
it as the title or ...
Dan: 03:59 I
think... In 1700... when they said it was an old proverb tells us that yes, by
1726, it's still an old one.
Dan: 04:10 So
let's, uh, let's fast forward from the mid 17 hundreds to the mid 18 hundreds.
And I saw a particular usage in an 1844 novel, The Cabin Book or Sketches of
Life in Texas. And this is by Charles Sealsfield. Uh, interesting. The books
have it misprinted they say by Seatsfield, but his name is actually Sealsfield,
which I noticed from the University of North Texas article on this particular
book.
Dan: 04:39 Yeah.
So this is a historical novel about the creation of the Republic of Texas. And
it consists of a series of sketches that depict the New Republic of Texas as a
land of opportunity for immigrants. "Our Proverbs says," this is a
quote, so I'm quoting it here in the book, it says, "our proverb says it
never is cold, but it freezes. It never is warm but hot. It never rains, but it
pours. This is true of our climate and of our national character. Our people do
not like to do things by halves if they want something, they want it
wholly."
Dan: 05:14 Now
this is translated from a German, the book was actually written in German and
this was translated by a Professor Mersch, uh, shortly after it was written.
And that may be why we see the, the particular grouping of those idioms all
together. That all kind of mean the same thing. And I could not find any
evidence anywhere that this is the, uh, a larger idiom and we are only getting
the last part of it. It never rains but it pours.
Dan: 05:41 Is
part of the larger one? Yeah. I can't find, this is the literally the only
place this one book in this translation of this book.
Dan: 05:49 Where
I see this full, you know, it never, it's never cold, but it freezes. It's
never worn, but it's hot and it never rains, but it pours.
Shauna: 05:57 That's
interesting. Uh, but definitely hit the nail on the head with, uh, with our
country. And there are people,
Dan: 06:12 Yeah.
Texas is the Texas of the United States though, so... And the United States is
the Texas of the rest of the world. So...
Dan: 06:19 All
right. January, 1855 in an edition of the American Cotton Planter out of
Montgomery, Alabama. "This being a principal there from trial where the
earth will freeze to the depth of plowing. Why is it that in the south and
southwest where 'when it rains, it pours', that writers are found to recommend
fall and winter plowing? Is it a blind following of eastern practice?"
Dan: 06:45 So
here we see it used and they put in quotations, When it rains it pours, using
it as a turn of phrase specifically of itself with of course no explanation at
all. So the folks of the southern United States would probably know what that
is. Um, at that point.
Shauna: 07:03 In
fact, I would think the, in this case it was specifically put in quotations
because they were talking about weather and harvest and otherwise may not have
even put it in quotations.
Dan: 07:14 Yes.
And 1863 in the Ladies' Repositories Volume 23 an article spoke about Little
Rock, Arkansas circa 1844 and he writes, t"he climate is mild and pleasant
except when it rains, when it rains, it pours and the water does not run on the
ground. It stands."
Shauna: 07:38 Like,
I think you said something about it being washed away and uh, yeah, that's,
that's totally what it's like. It's like a whole, sometimes entire streets are
like, you know, cars and buildings, whatever. They're just floating away.
Dan: 07:51 Oh
yeah. All right. So we start to see a transition in the late 18 hundreds where
we're using it just as descriptors and we start seeing it in advertisements.
May 9th, 1890 in the edition of the red cloud chief out of red cloud, Nebraska,
there is an article for R.M. Martin and Son, and that is a, um, grocery type
store. And, uh, so it says "when it rains, it pours, the bottom is washed
out on dry goods."
Dan: 08:17 And
so it's talking about prices being, you know, way down low and all nice clean
dry goods. No shelf worn. Uh, so anyway, this was, uh, the, you know, they're
just using their play on words as an advertisement.
Dan: 08:31 And
then in another example of this is in 1911 out of Marion, Kentucky, uh, the
December 21st edition of the Crittendon record press. And this is from an
advertisement for Taylor and Canaan. "When it rains, it pours. And when we
cut prices, we cut them deep."
Dan: 08:50 This
is a clothing company as specifically looks like suits and fancy clothes.
Although in 1911 I think that's all they wore with fancy clothes.
Dan: 09:04 Yeah.
So anyway, that's so they're using it there again. And I would say that I
think, uh, as far as both advertisements go, but also a boost in the use of the
phrase happened around 1914 and this is thanks to the Morton Salt Company. So
you may recognize the company's logo. It's a young girl holding an umbrella and
she's walking in the rain. Now what does that have to do with salt? You might
ask, well, prior to 1911, so salt was primarily sold as a raw ingredient. Raw
Salt is coarse grain and it becomes clumpy in damp or humid environments. So
the Morton salt company combined smaller grains of salt with an anti caking
agent, then magnesium carbonate, to create a salt that would not clump and thus
poured well even in damp conditions. So in 1914, the company launched an ad
campaign featuring the little girl along with the phrase, when it rains, it pours
as a play on when it rains outside the salt pours, which...
Dan: 10:10 which
would be a, um, a very interesting thing. And one thing you might not notice
about the little girl, uh, and the umbrella is that she's holding the little
canister and she's holding it sideways and the salt is just pouring behind her
as she walks. So you see the salt pouring out as she's walking.
Shauna: 10:28 I
think it's really cool ads like this because it's such an iconic image that,
you know, I think generally people in this, at least in the United States, if
they see that, that they, they immediately know what it is. There's no question
that's,
Dan: 10:47 So
they've had that trademark, the trademark being the phrase when it rains it
pours along with the use of the image itself.
Shauna: 10:56 Oh
Wow. Are there that like their color scheme cause that yellow and blue always makes
me think of of rain too for whatever reason. I don't know if it's that or just,
Dan: 11:04 I
don't know. So I saw the image that they had. I saw the image they had when
they for the filing and it was, it was not in color the filing. So I don't know
if that was a, because they didn't have the capability to do color Imaging, um,
for the trademark process, you know, to take it from whatever they had into put
into archiving it.
Dan: 11:25 So
I don't know if that's what if that, if it wasn't a color or if maybe
originally it wasn't in color and it only became the, you know, the yellow
color and blue that we know later too, because they don't have, they don't
still hold the trademark on this. They didn't renew it. And so they've, they've
upgraded it. They have trademarks for different phrases and different uses of
it. So when it rains we pour and that kind of thing. But um, yeah, so it's very
interesting. Also note that now it is calcium silicate that is used as the anti
caking agent instead of magnesium carbonate.
Dan: 11:58 So
while some would say that this is the origin of the phrase, uh, and I did find
several articles that tried to assert that this is where this came from or this
is where this was popularized. Uh, we already know it was described as an old
proverb in 1700 and we saw many, many examples of it being used in general
public consciousness long before the Morton salt company hired an ad company to
come up with this. Brilliant turn of phrase.
Shauna: 12:28 Today's
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Dan: 13:06 All
right, so moving into a little bit more modern times. August 24th, 2015 there
was a Huffington post article called when it rains, it pours 50 more picture
books from a stellar 2015. Now I, I use, this one as an example because many of
the, when it rains it pours examples we saw before, we're predominantly
negative. However, it does not have to be used that way. And even the Oxford
English dictionary mentioned, uh, especially negative or especially, you know,
in the unfortunate side of the house misfortune, right? But that is not always
the way it's used. So in this Huffington post article by Minh Le, who is a
children's author and an early childhood policy analyst, uh, he says, "as
far as I'm concerned, 2015 could have closed up shop months ago and it still
would have been a landmark year for picture books. Back in February I said that
this year may well prove to be a high water mark for picture books. However,
there was no guarantee that the year would continue its torrid pace, but
apparently when it rains, it pours because much to my delight wave after wave
of great books has continued to roll in. As a result, this year's quality of
books is matched only by it's unfathomable depths."
Dan: 14:23 Which
he sticks with the water, uh, theme the whole way. So way to go, not mixing
your metaphors there.
Dan: 14:35 Yeah.
And he also goes on to use, uh, then list 50 top picture books from 2015 in an
article he wrote in August of that same year. So like...
Dan: 14:45 That's
many of them already. Yeah. Uh, there's also a book that was released in 2015
called When It Rains, It Pours by Ron Wilson, Jr published by Columbia Press.
The synopsis goes, "Carla Mae Long wanted to be the perfect mother, but
the course of her life would prevent that. Growing up with a harsh mother and
troublesome siblings made Carla's life difficult from the beginning. Enduring
blow after blow, she fights to keep her head held high throughout every
struggle. Will she ever become the wife and mother she always wanted to be?
This whirlwind story follows Carla's difficulties and the adventures of her
four children: Darren-the strong one Melvin-smart and sensitive Shonda-the lone
female Derrick-young and temperamental This is the story of a family born and
raised in the streets of Cleveland. As you follow their saga you'll soon
discover-behind every problem there are always a hundred more. When It Rains It
Pours!
Dan: 15:42 Now
I did want, I wanted to ask you about this. Um, does that from, from a woman's standpoint,
the fact that they gave in the synopsis, all of the boys specific attributes,
but then Shonda they just called her the lone female. Does that, does that
description of the lone female give you some sort of personality trait that I'm
not aware of?
Shauna: 16:09 Um,
I think that traditionally it would... It would tend to suggest that, uh,
Shonda would be a very strong character, probably confident and you know,
having to stand up to the boys in the group.
Shauna: 16:26 Um,
yeah, that's, I mean generally I think that's kind of how that's how that's a
described. It maybe she, she may be the opposite. I don't know. But I do think
it's an intriguing story as it went on. It sounded better as the synopsis
continues.
Dan: 16:40 Yes.
I think it can be an interesting story. I just, I don't know who wrote the
synopsis but I would have liked for them to have given, uh, Shonda the same
treatment that they, she gave, they gave all of her brothers and give a little
bit of her personality traits besides just "she's a female".
Dan: 17:02 Right?
Yes. Yes. All right. So in 2017 there's a song when it rains, it pours by Luke
Combs. This is a country music song that I listened to and it is a, of course
it starts off with his girlfriend leaving him.
Dan: 17:19 Well
his dog didn't die here. This is actually mostly a happy song as well. So the
he's using, when it rains it pours as a positive in this particular version as
well. So one of the lines goes "Then I won a hundred bucks on a scratch
off ticket Bought two twelve packs and a tank of gas with it She swore they
were a waste of time, oh, but she was wrong I was caller number five on a radio
station, won a four-day, three-night, beach vacation Deep sea, senorita,
fishing down in Panama And I ain't gotta see my ex future mother-in-law anymore
Oh lord, when it rains it pours"
Shauna: 17:57 That's
a fantastic line. There at the end... I mean really all of that whole sequence.
That's, that's great.
Dan: 18:03 I
mean the whole, the whole song, at least for the music video that I saw, and
we'll link to it on the Patreon Uh, but from what I saw, it looks like, uh, he
likes to hang out with the boys and, um, probably like they ham up the fact
that there are a bunch of Hickish, you know, overly stereotyped redneck type
young boys and haven't found what they're going to do in life. But then, uh,
when it rains it pours and in the good times just keep coming for him. So I
didn't actually finish the whole song, but, um, you know, I got, I got through
enough of it to get the gist, I think.
Dan: 18:41 All
right. So, uh, and the last thing I want to mention on this is a quote from
Joan Marques, Author, PhD, Professor at Woodbury, and Generally smart woman
Dan: 18:53 Yes.
So when it, this is her quote, “When it rains it pours. Maybe the art of life
is to convert tough times to great experiences: we can choose to hate the rain
or dance in it.”
Dan: 19:06 Yeah,
it mixes several phrases that we're familiar with into one. Um, really good
poignant phrase I think.
Dan: 19:18 Well
of course I like the rain as well. Though maybe not in the quantities we are
currently getting. And I love idioms though. So it stands to reason I would
enjoy idioms and phrases about rain and we've got a few more we're going to do
in the future, so I don't want to spoil anything, but I did run across to
another phrase that I wanted to mention. So here's your bonus idiom for this
week.
Dan: 19:53 Defined
by the Oxford English dictionary as meaning "this person is characterized
by bad luck or an inability to be organized or prepared."
Dan: 20:03 I'm
going to give a really early example, like the first attestation they have and
then I'm going to give one that's more a little bit more modern.
Dan: 20:18 Yeah.
Not necessarily older necessarily. Cause we don't, we can't pin it down. But
you know, it was an old proverb in 1700 for when it rains it pours. But this
says "it rayned porrage, but I wanted a dish",
Shauna: 20:39 I
mean, I would want a dish too, but I would want that dish so I could put it
like turn it upside down and put it over my head.
Dan: 20:47 Well,
so in this case it's, it's supposed to signify that, you know, you have like,
here's this good thing happening, but your luck is so bad that Oh, it's raining
porridge. But you, you don't even have a dish to catch it in.
Dan: 21:01 Right.
So here, here's a from Katherine Susanna Pritchard in her book Wnged Seeds.
This is from 1950 she wrote, he's the "unluckiest man I ever knew. If it
was raining pea soup, he'd only have a fork. "
Dan: 21:17 Uh,
you can see the allusion to that as well as that as that plants out. Nice. All
right, so that's our, is there a quick bonus idiom for you today, but that does
wrap us up. So thanks for joining us. If you haven't already, take a moment to
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Shauna: 21:56 All
right. This is your last chance to get us a message before episode 50. Is there
a turn of phrase that means something important to you or your family? Well, we
want to hear about it. You can reach out to us on social media or email us
bunnytrailspod@gmail.com We'd love to hear about your favorite phrase and why
you love it. The deadline to send your stuff to us is Sunday, May 26th it can
be written or an audio file or send us a message and we'll reach back out to
you. Thanks again for joining us. We'll talk to you again next week. And until
then, remember,
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