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We used Temi to auto transcribe this, then Dan went through and checked it based on the show notes. He tried really hard on it, but this kind of stuff isn't his specialty. So if you notice anything confusing, please comment on this post so Dan can look at it and clarify anything.
Shauna: 00:00 Welcome to bunny trails, a whimsical adventure of idioms and other turns of phrase, I'm Shauna Harrison
Dan: 00:05 And I'm Dan Pugh. Each week we delve into the origin and history of an idiom, or other turn of phrase, and discuss how it's been used over time. This often takes us down some fun and interesting research rabbit holes. And this week is no exception. Shauna, you know what season is coming up soon?
Dan: 00:21 That's right! And I have some serious spring fever and as usual, when I run across to turn of phrase, I tend to try and figure out where it came from. So this week we're going to talk about this concept of spring fever.
Dan: 00:33 So according to the Collins English dictionary, spring fever is "a feeling of restlessness experienced by many people at the onset of spring".
Dan: 00:42 However, dictionary.com says that spring fever is "a listless, lazy, or restless feeling commonly associated with the beginning of spring".
Dan: 00:50 So listless and restless or not the same thing, although you can have both in a weird way, those are, um, they're not always mutually exclusive, but they can be. And one of the things that I've found when researching this is that spring fever as it's used today and has been used, is actually a contronym, which is also known as an auto-antonym.
Dan: 01:13 And that means that the word or phrase can have a contradictory or even opposite meaning.
Dan: 01:18 Some common examples of contronyms are "off" as in "he turned it off", meaning he deactivated it and "the alarm went off", meaning it was activated. So "off" can mean the opposite of the other thing or the, the, the opposite. In this case, uh, another example is "first degree". So when speaking of a murder charge, then first degree is the "most severe" form of murder, uh, at least in the US legal system. But when you're speaking of burns, first degree is the "least severe" form of burns. And then more recently as an example of a contronym that is coming into its own now is the word "literally", which, uh, now you literally of course means a taking the words without the metaphor. But now it can be frequently used to mean figurative, which is the opposite. And that means taking the words with a metaphor.
Dan: 02:08 Yes. So "I am literally going to die", except you're, you're not at all going to die. So yes, but that word is definitely it, it now shows up in dictionaries as, as meaning both literal and figurative. Uh, and so it is a recent addition to our contronym list. In our usage of spring fever, it can mean, it means it can come with "energy and excitement for what is to come", or sometimes "lethargy and depression". So in this case it can go either way.
Shauna: 02:36 Gotcha. Well, Hey, I mean that's my spring fever is like, hurry up already. I am so ready for something fun. Like get outside.
Dan: 02:44 Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I'm, I am of the same vein. The, the, I cannot wait to get out and do something. So spring is ,"the time of year between winter and summer during which the leaves come out on the deciduous trees. Many flowers are in bloom, the days lengthen and the weather typically becomes warmer", at least according to the Oxford English dictionary. So, uh, they also say that this is "generally regarded as lasting from March to May in the northern hemisphere and from September to November in the southern hemisphere". Here in the United States, we declare March 20th to be the first day of spring. And that coincides with the vernal equinox.
Shauna: 03:18 That's right. And listen, I'm all about the, the, the equinox, but I don't know that I, that I think there should be a specific day that we decided spring because a lot of times it doesn't feel like spring.
Dan: 03:30 Uh, yeah, I mean today definitely feels like spring. Uh, but we're recording this just before spring. Uh, I'm not sure... I'm sure the first week of spring in Kansas will bring us many opportunities to feel like winter is still got a grip on things.
Dan: 03:46 Fever... So we talked about the word spring. Now we're gonna talk about the word fever. Fever comes from the Latin "febris", and since the 12th century it's meant an abnormally high body temperature, but it, it was originally understood as a disease in its own right. And then later as a symptom or a sign of a disease.
Shauna: 04:01 Oh, Gotcha. Yeah, I could see where that would like in the olden times, ye olden times, it was its own disease, like just being too hot was the thing.
Dan: 04:10 Right. And we're going to see several examples of this. So let's first, so for the term spring fever, this is a difficult one to pin down where it originated or when it originated, because it comes from the Latin "febris vernalis". I'm sure I said that wrong because I never, I never put the syllable in the right place. So the febris vernalis, literally meant spring fever, but, uh, as we do it, in this case, it was thought that fevers were a disease in and of themselves, not just a symptom of the disease as we just mentioned.
Dan: 04:41 So here they mean that literally, and not "figuratively literally", but "literally literally". Uh, so this one, the first time we see it actually used an English is in the Whole Works of Doctor Sydenham, uh, Dr. Thomas Sydenham and it was translated by John Pechey and he completed that work in the late 16, uh, in the late 1600s... 1696.
Dan: 05:07 So accompanying this timeframe, it's important to know then the late 16 hundreds, we saw several examples of words being attached to "fever" like those caused by or attributed to the administration of drugs, consumption of food stuffs or exposure to environmental conditions. In this case, in the late 16 hundreds, we saw terms like "artificial fever", meaning it's a fever that was, uh, brought on by not true means, but we caused it to be a fever by giving something or, or by eating something. So we started seeing these words get attached to fever and that may have led to a why specifically the, the translation was done this way. Although it sounds like it probably was a pretty accurate translation on the less, uh, where, uh, John Pechy basically he translated what Thomas send them said, "But is to be noted that purging is not altogether so necessary after spring-fevers, as after fevers in the fall."
Dan: 06:00 Meaning you will need to do more purging for fevers in the fall, than you would for fevers in the spring. But he's specifically con... specifically uses that phrase of spring-fevers in here in the, and hyphenated even so calling it specifically, uh, in this, in this case. And so the, the postscript specifically says febres vernalis. I've also still said that wrong anyway, vernal, this is where we get that word, the Spring Equinox was, is the vernal equinox, is that, that's where that word comes from as well as his Latin.
Dan: 06:31 In America. We don't actually have to learn Latin in school, like in, in the UK and some other places. Right. So I have no idea how to actually say any of the things in Latin.
Shauna: 06:40 Yeah. Well, I mean I learned some Latin, but it wasn't like very, the the words that you learned weren't very useful. I'll just say I like to everyday life, but I think it would be febres vernalis.
Dan: 06:53 I'll take your word for it. Okay. This, maybe we'll both be wrong or maybe you'll be right and that'll be fine. As long as one of us is right then the podcast was right
Dan: 07:01 All right, so that was in the late 16 hundreds now in the mid 17 hundreds we start putting words with the term "fever" to indicate what the Oxford English dictionary calls "an intense enthusiasm for or interest in a person pastime or event; typically widespread, but short lived; an obsession or a craze." So in this case, we're frequently modifying that word that would, or frequently using a modifying word that would indicate what that obsession is. So as an example, in the March 10th, 1761 issue of the London Chronicle, the writer says “The war-fever is now come to a crisis; either it will become more general, or will soon have an end.” So in this case, we're looking at it and saying, okay, 1760s and we're using war-fever as in a craze, meaning, you know, the war is crazed and everybody's crazed about it.
Shauna: 07:55 I think that's happened a couple of times and we can see that war fever, uh in the newspapers and certain timeframes.
Dan: 08:03 Oh yeah, definitely. We definitely see war fever anytime there's a, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. In 1828 we see another example of this in Roland Green's book Treatise of Cultivated Ornamental Flowers, which I would say has a subtitle that is like 19 words long, so I'm just not going to include it here, but he writes "during the tulip fever, which raged in Holland about the middle of the 17th century, some splendid varieties were sold for enormous sums of money."
Shauna: 08:30 Okay. Can I say that there might still be a tulip fever going on because if you just look up tulip fields in, right now on Google, you will find that there are like entire miles acres of land that are all one color of tulip. It's really cool actually.
Dan: 08:50 Especially for for those parts of the country that can, or parts of the world that can grow tulips.
Dan: 08:57 You don't live in the right part of the world to do that. So another example here, in January 27th, 1842 in an issue of the New York Herald, they coined the term "Dickensania" meaning a Charles Dickens. Right. And so they comment that "Boston and all New England has caught the dickens fever."
Dan: 09:18 Yeah. I mean Charles Dickens wrote some really good books. Yeah, there are, I think there are a lot of better authors out there, but I'm not going to say anything bad.
Shauna: 09:26 At the time, you know, having some of those concepts in, in his books was just like new this, such a, is an unfounded territory for authors. And so I think that's part of what, you know, made him so popular.
Dan: 09:40 Nice. I think the last time we saw that heavily here was, was in science fiction. So last time there was like an untold territory's that you could write about, although I'm sure we'll have a enough of a change with technology that, that one can write about that and that will be new again as well. All right. So it wasn't until the mid 18 hundreds that we really started to see the term spring fever take off in the written word. Uh, so we see it sporadically, but in the mid 18 hundreds, we really saw it start to run, run wild. So the first time we see it, uh, in, in the common print, uh, was in the Yazoo city Whig and Political Register. That's a newspaper out of Yazoo city, Mississippi. If I am pronouncing your city wrong, I'm so sorry.
Dan: 10:42 All right. So this was in the Yazoo City Whig and Political Register, April 7th, 1843. "The weather since our last has been influenced by spring and spring has had its influence on us having brought on two very malignant attacks of spring fever, which were cured by hard work at press, a first rate remedy after working off a token, all tokens of the epidemic of gone off."
Dan: 11:09 Yeah. So in this case, I'm not even a hundred percent sure I know which way they're using spring fever here. The good way or the bad way.
Dan: 11:25 Yeah, probably. Good point. Good point. Well, and here's another example of it taking the more lethargic and depressive side. Uh, and this one was one I found in the Wichita Daily Eagle out of Kansas. And this was June 6th, 1886. That's where we live is Wichita, KS
Dan: 11:41 This is a reprint from the humor magazine, Puck out of New York. And it was written by Scott Wray and it was titled Spring Fever. So it starts off saying, "I suppose that almost every reader is familiar with spring fever and not liable to make a wrong diagnosis when under the influence of that too common disease. If there are any who have not had it often enough to know when it grips them. They may be interested in a brief description of a few of its most striking symptoms."
Dan: 12:07 So that goes on for a few but then picks up "A man with Spring fever wants chiefly to be let alone. His pulse is regular but slow and he has a frequent desire to sit down in an easy chair and rest for a couple of centuries. He would not go out in the backyard and dig up gold if he knew there was a mine of it there ready coined and only six inches below the surface."
Shauna: 12:29 Okay. And I can tell you got to the gold. I was like, isn't that just like the afternoon you get off work and that's and that's it there. Spring fever has hit me.
Dan: 12:36 That would be fair. So in this case, not only, is he using spring fever, uh, in a way that he assumes everybody knows, but then uses that humor styling to then describe the symptoms. That would not be funny if you did not know what spring fever was. So the fact that he's using it in this way and using it in a humorous context means a lot of people know what that would be. So they can, they can be in on the joke. And Puck was a very, very popular magazine at the time. All right, so another example is we move forward a little bit, uh, out of The Day Book, which is a newspaper out of Chicago, April 15th, 1913, they said "the spring fever sure will get you, if you don't watch out, it's coming. You can't stop or dodge. Sure as fate, you're elected to have spring fever."
Dan: 13:28 You can't stop it. (continuing) "Which simply means that the sap in you is akin to the sap in the budding trees and the flowers just beginning to stir towards later beauty in the cheery, chirrupy birds. Indeed in all the living creatures on this merry old globe. Spring was meant for this sort of thing. And we don't mind saying we think the chaps a chump who doesn't let nature have a little reign for fun and frolic at this teasing time of year. Of course, it's up to you to pick your kind of fever. "
Dan: 13:57 So he goes on to give some examples of fishing and gardening and things that get you out in nature. Uh, but he says basically his point is that as long as you put your soul into whatever you're doing, you'll come out happier than before.
Shauna: 14:08 I like that. Your voice was really good and I just wanted you to be like, and now you know the rest of the store. How does that go? Can you do it?
Dan: 14:16 Paul Harvey? Uh, no, probably not. (Impersonating Paul Harvey: "And now you know, the REST of the story". Yeah. I don't think I'm, I'm not nearly old enough to do that.
Shauna: 14:25 Well he has that crazy deep voice. I sound like a chipmunk, so I never can't fake the deep voice.
Dan: 14:31 Yeah, fair me too. Well anyway, he was using it, he was saying that the, using it as an example of wanting to get out and get into nature and uh, you know, the, that was the kind of point he was using. So he's using it in the positive way, the way that that I would use it.
Dan: 14:46 Now in the evening star, which is a newspaper out of Washington DC, April 18th, 1948 "spring fever can be dangerous".
Dan: 14:53 And this is an article by Paula Phillips. And so basically she's saying that, uh, "you're having an annual about of spring fever", talking about, um, you know, depression and lethargy and she gives a lot of really not funny but, um, very medically details about it.
Dan: 15:13 So when she's talking about, so she's using it here again in 1948 in that lethargy and depressive sense.
Dan: 15:20 So we see it throughout history, really up until the, up until now, even that we see it, it can be used one way or the other. So, well, early spring fever was an actual disease process because in, and we talked about that early on with it coming from the Latin and they were actually diseases or symptoms of a disease, right?
Dan: 15:40 Uh, and so, uh, Dr. Paul Jansonn in the June 14th, 2016 issue of Emergency Medicine News, he wrote an article called "When Spring Fever Was A Real Disease". So he describes scurvy as the most likely culprit for what people would call spring, spring fever or spring disease. Interesting. Yeah. So scurvy is caused by a vitamin C deficiency, and those stores were often depleted during the winter since fruits didn't grow at that time of year. And this was a real threat to people in the 17 hundreds and even moving into the 18 hundreds. So he notes some vestiges of this still survive today. Like the concept of "an apple a day keeps the doctor away" because apples are high in vitamin C. There's also a tradition in some parts of the world to put oranges or other fruits and Christmas baskets and give to people over over the winter holiday.
Shauna: 16:28 Oh my goodness. Yeah, my family did that. You got like apples, oranges and mixed nuts and stuff.
Dan: 16:32 Right. And that's, and that originated because they were doing things that would be high in vitamin C.
Dan: 16:39 And he even said that, uh, he commented that in the 70s he was a physician in Appalachia and he said that he, he saw lots of winter tonics that would go on sale during the winter, obviously, uh, and he said that they contain things like onions and Sauerkraut, things that were high in vitamin C. Now this isn't something he was selling is something that, you know, were herbal remedies or you know, home remedies and they likely probably did have a degree of efficacy back in the day. We should write into sawbones and ask them to talk about that if they haven't already. They're in Appalachian so they would know more than anybody.
Shauna: 17:13 Well, I think that's cool too. Like, you know, they'd, still have vitamin C, like you can get little candies or they're like cough drops, but they're like vitamin C drops, you know, and, and, uh, I mean, you know, that's one of those things, it's easy to get to be depleted in your body. One of the vitamins that's easier.
Dan: 17:30 Well, I mean, but if you keep it, but it's not an issue, you're having an issue now because if you have a regular diet, then it's not normally an issue in a developed countries. So, um, but anyway, he says, he says that those winter tonics could persisted because they had survived for centuries like that. And people just remembered, like the oral tradition passed down, that these were effective and they were helpful. And so that's, even though scurvy wasn't even remotely a threat in the 1970s when he was there, people would still buy them because they're grandpappy's grandpappy swore by it. And, and I mean, there probably was some validity, a little bit of validity. Not a lot, but probably a little bit of validity to those things back in, in ye olden times.
Shauna: 18:11 But they should have been eating peppers because man, those have like tons of vitamin A and vitamin C,
Shauna: 18:18 So is this like, I mean there's a real like seasonal thing that that happens to people.
Dan: 18:25 Meeeeeeehhhhhhhh... So, all right, so I, you know, there's a real, there was a real disease that was spring disease or spring fever and you know, that's one of the things that people ask now, is spring fever now an actual disease. And so in the March 22nd, 2007, uh, issue of the Scientific American, Christine Nicholson wrote a story, a titled Fact or Fiction? Spring Fever As A Real Phenomenon. And so she posits a or asks here, in this case, "Is it salvation from winter that puts us in the mood for love? Or is there a biological basis for this flurry of psychological renewal and physical energy?"
Dan: 19:00 Of course, she's writing about the positive side of that. Uh, she says there's an, one of the things that she comments in here is "there's an illness that has been documented by poets for centuries. It's symptoms include a flushed face, increased heart rate, appetite loss, restlessness and daydreaming. It's spring fever that wonderfully amorphous disease. We all recognize come April and May"
Dan: 19:20 I think her spring starts later than my spring. She talks at great length about seasonal affective disorders and, uh, other things. And basically there's not enough evidence to show that there is really such a thing as spring fever. You know, it's kind of a weird, weird transition from real diseases into, you know, a common feeling that people are ready to get going. And, uh, so there may be some psychological and physiological things happening there, but there's just not enough evidence to say yes or no,
Dan: 19:55 right? Yeah. Well, yeah. Or, or potentially even, you know, end of winter, you know, a fever or something like that. But, uh, so she closes with this statement that "Clearly there are marked correlations between moods, behavior, and the lengthening days of spring. But the precise cause for our renewed energy remains elusive. The evidence for spring fever remains largely anecdotal, but just as seasonal effective disorder has proved, sadly, real spring fever edges away from science fiction, even if it is not quite science fact."
Shauna: 20:27 Today's show is sponsored by our patrons on Patreon. You make bunny trails possible. We'd like to thank all of our patrons and especially our logamorphology interns, Charlie Moore, Pat Rowe, and Mary Halsig. You can also join the bunny trails community on Patreon. You'll get access to exclusive patron only conversations, shownotes, early access to episodes, behind the scenes content, and even a monthly bonus episode about a more colorful phrase. Like Charlie, Pat and Mary, you can get top billing as one of our featured patrons. Go to patreon.com/bunnytrailspod for more information.
Dan: 21:03 So I want to talk about a couple of, of, uh, art artistic endeavors using spring, spring fever, as is our, uh, as is our common custom. So I'm gonna start a little earlier than normal though. I want to go all the way back to 1927 and there is a comedy film called Spring Fever. And in it, uh, this is, I'll just read the Synopsis Word for word
Dan: 21:30 Which sounds very suspiciously like a movie. I would... a synopsis I would find in Balderdash, which if you'll, I don't know how many of you know that game, but, uh, originally Balderdash was about taking a word that most people wouldn't know and then you'd have to guess what it means. Uh, and then they created a game called Beyond Balderdash, which had categories including one where you just had a movie title and you had to write the synopsis for it.
Dan: 21:53 And I think it's all marketed under balderdash now, uh, with the, the category side. But yeah. Anyway, that's, that's exactly the kind of thing, you know, right. Where it's like a, uh, I don't know, there was some movie that I remember having a card for and it was just like a name, like a regular name, like Harry or Larry or something like that. And the synopsis was basically a, a evil rubber tires on the loose, destroying the community or something ridiculous like that. Sounds like a really bad C level film, but I'm just like, I obviously I got that one wrong because you know, nobody, like no one gets that right. All right. So in 1948, uh, I, I saw a PG Wodehouse's novel Spring Fever pop up over and over again during my research. So I felt it was just calling to be included here. So...
Dan: 23:05 Wealthy New York businessman G. Ellery Cobbold has sent his son Stanwood, a blundering ex-American football player, to London, to separate him from Hollywood starlet Eileen Stoker with whom he is in love. When Cobbold discovers that Stoker is also in London, making pictures, he insists that Stanwood goes to stay with a distant relation, curmudgeonly widower Lord Shortlands.
Dan: 23:11 Well, so for those of you familiar with Wodehouse's stuff, uh, it, it doesn't actually feature any of Wodehouse's regular characters. Uh, but the cast contains a typical, uh, Wodehousean selection of English aristocrats, wealthy Americans, household staff, and imposters.
Dan: 23:29 Yes. Yeah. Uh, it was very difficult for me to say all of those names, as I'm sure you noticed as I kind of stumbled my way over them all. Uh, in 1983, there was also a film, uh, another comedy, this one more of a 1980s, uh, Porky's esque style, I think just from the title, but maybe not, not quite that raunchy. Uh, but it was also called spring fever and it was the synopsis here.
Shauna: 23:53 Tough girl from Vegas "Carling Bassett" travels to Florida with her promiscuous mother "Susan Anton" to compete in the Junior Nationals Women's Tennis championship.
Dan: 24:04 Okay. That is a really junior nationals, women's tennis championship. It's just a very wow alot to say. I believe it's the word promiscuous that, that gets me that I think, hmmm.
Shauna: 24:19 Yeah. Cause I mean, the rest of it, I'm kind of going, all right, they're going to a tennis tournament, mom and daughter. Yeah. But mom's promiscuous apparently, and that's the problem.
Dan: 24:29 I don't know. Listen, this is what I think, as long as everybody's consenting, you go, girl. All right. So since 1995, there's been a perfume called spring fever: The feel good fragrance and it's by Origins. Uh, I saw ads for it on Nordstrom's, so I was like, okay, cause I had been searching spring fever a lot and then like the ads start popping up about different things about spring fever. Right. So anyway, we gathered this is what they say about it.
Dan: 24:52 We gathered spring's most uplifting aromas including Artemisia, apple, marigold and linden blossom and tickled them with tangy mandarin, lush cypress and sparkling watermelon to capture the irresistible sensation of a sunny spring day. More than a time of year, it's a totally great state of mind.
Dan: 25:14 Go ahead and send your money right on over to bunny trails, Spring fever by origins. Yeah. Anyway.
Dan: 25:23 So, there's also a book called spring fever by Mary Kaye Adams and it was published in 2012 by Saint Martins press and this synopsis here, man, this book, I haven't read it. I just read the synopsis and I'm just like, whew. All right. So
Dan: 25:39 Annajane truly believes she is over her ex-husband, Mason. They've been divorced for four years, she's engaged to a terrific new guy, and she's ready to leave the small North Carolina town where she and Mason had so much history. She is so over Mason that she has absolutely no problem attending his wedding. But when fate intervenes and the wedding is called to a halt as the bride is walking down the aisle, Annajane begins to realize that maybe this happened for a reason. And maybe, just maybe, she wants Mason back...
Dan: 26:14 But there are secrets afoot in this small Southern town, and soon Annajane discovers that change can bring out the worst in people-even her own friends and neighbors-and uncover family scandals. Happiness could be hers for the taking...and the life she once had with Mason could be in her future. But first Annajane must find out what she's really made of, and what really matters most.
Dan: 26:38 There's so much going on there. Can I just say AnnaJane? I am very, uh, supportive usually. But girl, you might be in a mess right here. So just take a couple, a couple of steps back, get some other friends that don't live in this crazy little North Carolina town and have a talksie about what you're going through. Cause listen, there's a reason you and Mason got divorced and moved on.
Dan: 27:12 No, he doesn't. But what, this is what I'm wondering. Maybe when they're, you know, bring out the worst in people. Maybe he's one of them. So there are things that push them, you know, back into masons arms
Shauna: 27:23 Okay. This is literally like, it's so many things going on. It's not just that book. It's also that book and that book. Like there's a, hmmm.
Dan: 27:32 I know there's so much going on in the synopsis that I almost, I mean this is definitely not my style of book. I almost want to read it just to see how it turns out.
Dan: 27:49 All right. So I do want to mention something else that I saw in the scientific American article that I had mentioned earlier. Um, there's, so this is a, this is one of the passages that they talk about in it. "There's been a great deal of research on how seasonal changes affect our mood and behavior. Matthew Keller, postdoctoral fellow at the Virginia Institute for Psychiatric and behavioral genetics in Richmond, studied 500 people in the US and Canada and found that the more time people spent outside on a sunny spring day, the better their mood. Such good moods decreased during the hotter summer months and there is an optimal temperature for them. Keller claims that optimal temperature is 72 degrees Fahrenheit, otherwise known as room temperature."
Dan: 28:31 So next time you and your partner are arguing over the Thermostat, look at that... 72 degrees... Science baby.
Dan: 28:42 Uh, my thermostat is set at 70, I think right now. But uh, yeah, it hasn't gotten down to 70 because I made potato pancakes and um, you know, smokey griddle. So, uh, everything was a little bit warm anyway, so I love spring is my favorite time of the year. I am knee deep in spring fever right now. I cannot wait to get out of the house and play some tennis, ride my bike, hit the river and mostly spend some quality time with my friends and family on the deck without freezing my butt off.
Dan: 29:12 Well, that about wraps us up for today. I'd like to say a thank you to those who have posted reviews for the show. It's one of the easiest ways to support your favorite podcast and best of all it's free. If you have a suggestion for an idiom or other turn of phrase or just want to chat, you can catch us on Twitter and Instagram and occasionally even Facebook all @bunnytrailspod Or you can get links to everything we do at www.bunnytrailspod.com
Shauna: 29:35 This week we ask you to share the show on social media. Tell your friends and followers how much you enjoy the show and encourage them to follow along as well. Sharing the show with those you know really is the best way to grow the community. Thanks again for joining us. We'll talk to you again next week. And until then, remember,
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